29.3.11
Dress the vicar
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A little background reading so we might mutually flourish when there are different opinions
A little background reading so we might mutually flourish when there are different opinions
9 comments:
Someone needs to tell them how to spell surplice. harumph.
don't forget you won't be wearing the stole like that for the first year....!
I know Charlie - you can't get the teachers or the vicars these days - good job I know what I am doing eh?
This isn't a criticism of those who are still not sure about clerical wear, but as I approach ordination I am amazed and saddened that there appear to be many ordinands approaching ordination who do not know what is worn, why and when.
I appreciate the diverse traditions within the CofE mean that there are constituents where robes/clericals are not worn. However, I am certain that at some stage, and in many instances, clericals/robes are required to be worn and if clergy don't know what/how to wear items this smacks of lack of respect for the traditions of the church as well as for those for whom this is important. We must remember that when conducting certain offices it might be the only time people have contact with the church; and if we can't 'dress' properly that reflects badly more on the church than it does the individual.
My thoughts aren't theologically based, but more from what we, as ordinands owe to those we minister to. Surely the theological colleges have some sort of duty to ensure we know what's what.
Of course fibre-fairy - you're right - I think I had imagined the ceremony with it across but hadn't pictured in my head the rest of the first year.
'I have more questions' - you make some good points - it is definitely a 'low evangelical' thing but I think it is also that in many ways we wish we could wear all that beautiful stuff but belong to a tradition that sits in it uncomfortably (pardon the pun). Your stoles are exquisite by the way, us low types are probably just a tad jealous that's all ;-)
I thnk the point is if one thinks it serves a purpose, if one understands the symbolism or the functionality then wear it when appropriate; if one doesn't and vehemently DISagrees with it all, as many clergy I know do, then leave it to one side... but whether stuff is beautiful or attractive has nothing to do with it IMO ( other than that there's nothing wrong and everything right with beauty in the worship of Almighty God! What I mean is I find "envy" of vestments simply cos they're beautiful a little hard to understand.
It is good to see the range of thought on this. I come from a perspective which says that what you do is more important than what you wear and I see no evidence that Jesus wore fancy clothes or asked people to do so. In fact the opposite. Jesus did his teaching in the normal garments of the day and died in little more than a loincloth. I really cannot see Peter, a fisherman, having much truck with special clothes and Paul certainly didn't as a tentmaker. So why do we now? Is it to hark back to a Levitical priesthood? Certainly some seem to see themselves standing in the gap but if they do have to accept that that is a covenant of law not grace. Hebrews(vastly underrated) is clear that Jesus is of a non levitical priesthood which predates and is therefore superior to Levi.
If the clothes are to remind us of the power and might of the church, then they certainly do that! But perhaps smack of hubris when the CoE is virtually bankrupt and selling off everything it owns to keep going. Perhaps if the ministers were seen as normal, people might be more willing to give whereas the pomp and ceremony may lead many to think that the CoE has plenty of money. Certainly in the nonconformist churches I have attended tithing is routine and expected. By tithing they mean 10% of pre tax income, not a couple of quid.
“that when conducting certain offices it might be the only time people have contact with the church; and if we can't 'dress' properly that reflects badly more on the church than it does the individual.” When I talk to colleagues and none Christian friends they don’t want somebody who dresses properly, they want somebody who embodies Christ in their lives and actions, who allows Christ to shine through and who models the Christ who was born into poverty, ran for his life as a refugee, worked in a carpenters business and then preached the message of God. Not somebody who by their outdated clothing models seperation and otherliness. You are already seen as anachronistic by most of the world, why make life harder for yourselves?
Fine so you've got the vicar officiating at a wedding or summat. What about the robes he/she's going to wear at the celebration of the Eucharist?
Same as above anon or you could wear a cassock alb
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