tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2343277549128598933.post8600088376014883663..comments2023-08-10T09:38:07.159+01:00Comments on Revising Reform: Did Jesus need to be tortured to death?Rev R Marszalekhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01831340057673771787noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2343277549128598933.post-88135700748366662212011-02-28T22:58:04.667+00:002011-02-28T22:58:04.667+00:00Thank you for such a thought-provoking contributio...Thank you for such a thought-provoking contribution. I have been working on an essay about Sabbath and preparing for this presentation on the Atonement and Cole's book might be informative on both those fronts.Rev R Marszalekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01831340057673771787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2343277549128598933.post-28927467661169698212011-02-28T19:40:46.041+00:002011-02-28T19:40:46.041+00:00And as a post script - I will be attempting to ope...And as a post script - I will be attempting to open up discussion of 'where is God in the rubble?' in a Cafe Church forum session next month - like you, 7 minutes or so, in a very post-modern and experientially orientated context. It is a good 'reality-check' for us as theologians to try and convey gospel truths meaningfully in such contexts, because the questions are actually very real.Tim Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13316071177447733796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2343277549128598933.post-66421498206451083382011-02-28T19:36:33.081+00:002011-02-28T19:36:33.081+00:00It is a question that does indeed arise, and not j...It is a question that does indeed arise, and not just out of theological curiosity. There were many in Christ's times who experienced such excruciating deaths (literally) - does the physical nature of Christ's death add anything to the spiritual horror we can barely apprehend?<br /><br />My suggestion is to explore Philippians 2. Joseph Hellerman has proposed that the path of Jesus' death is a type of 'cursus pudorum', and I came up with a similar conclusion in my research on humility as a complete reversal (and subversion) of status. The direction of Phil. 2:5-10 is that Christ not only experienced death, but 'even death on a cross'.<br /><br />The 'mind' of Christ revealed in the path through incarnation, servanthood/slavery and crucifixion embodies profound gospel truths. Christ underwent the horror of torture, the instrument of terror and complete humiliation as a public statement from the most powerful that they hold ultimate authority and power - all of which was broken in the vindication of Christ through his resurrection. A profoundly greater power and authority is revealed, but only through the experience of confrontation with the 'empire of terror' and all that it represents in the manifestation of evil through human agency.<br /><br />Not only does this draw us into profound theological territory, it also is all too readily relevant to our own world...<br /><br />By the way, I think Graham Cole's book exploring atonement as the manifestation of shalom is one of the more creative offerings in recent times. <br /><br />Grace and peace.Tim Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13316071177447733796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2343277549128598933.post-47870811105392210492011-02-26T23:25:08.689+00:002011-02-26T23:25:08.689+00:00In the forum of a café church, eh. So will you be ...In the forum of a café church, eh. So will you be watching Mel Gibson's Passion as well as reading textbooks?<br /><br />I mean that quite seriously – as a particular visual take on one way of reading the "Stations of the Cross" tradition, it does seem to put brutality front and centre stage.<br /><br />One question that arises from that is whether a dwelling on the torture and suffering of Christ is also about evoking a subjective response, and not simply making an objective atonement.<br /><br />I shall look forward to seeing you work through this series.Doug Chaplinhttp://clayboy.co.uknoreply@blogger.com