tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2343277549128598933.post5588495713076614529..comments2023-08-10T09:38:07.159+01:00Comments on Revising Reform: Better swot up on the old 39 and the BCPRev R Marszalekhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01831340057673771787noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2343277549128598933.post-68351289014216867192009-06-05T18:40:44.854+01:002009-06-05T18:40:44.854+01:00Here is the declaration those to be ordained assen...Here is the declaration those to be ordained assent to:<br />The Church of England is part of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, worshipping the one true God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It professes the faith uniquely revealed in the Holy Scriptures and set forth in the catholic creeds, which faith the Church is called upon to proclaim afresh in each generation. Led by the Holy Spirit, it has borne witness to Christian truth in its historic formularies, the Thirty-nine Articles of Religion, The Book of Common Prayer and the Ordering of Bishops, Priests and Deacons. In the declaration you are about to make, will you affirm your loyalty to this inheritance of faith as your inspiration and guidance under God in bringing the grace and truth of Christ to this generation and making Him known to those in your care?<br /> <br /> Declaration of Assent <br /> <br />I ..... do so affirm, and accordingly declare my belief in the faith which is revealed in the Holy Scriptures and set forth in the catholic creeds and to which the historic formularies of the Church of England bear witness; and in public prayer and administration of the sacraments, I will use only the forms of service which are authorized or allowed by Canon.<br /><br />The sentence 'to which the historic formularies of the Church of England bear witness', is interestingly nuanced. <br /><br />Blessings Poppy. Thanks for your contribution. I will look at the article you point to. <br /><br />RachelRev R Marszalekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01831340057673771787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2343277549128598933.post-16070224941573614332009-06-05T15:20:24.348+01:002009-06-05T15:20:24.348+01:00David Ould misrepresents the truth. You are not re...David Ould misrepresents the truth. You are not required to subscribe the 39 Articles, in the sense that you say you accept that they are correct, but you are asked to assert that you accept that they bear witness to the historic faith of the Church of England. Those words (and they are relatively new) were chosen with great care so that people did not have to say that they believe that everything in the articles is true and applies today. Fot instance, they are not a fair and honest representation of the faith of Roman Catholics at the time, much less so now. Then there's the problem of the change in relationship between churches since then. Then there's the change in the idea of the State and of democracy since then. Then there's the whole problem of the way that words change meaning over time. Then there's the problem of how social context gives meaning to language. It's not simple. As if that wasn't enough, you could also do worse than see what Newman made of the Articles in Tract 90. http//:anglicanhistory.org/tracts/tract90/<br />So, read the Articles, try to understand them, but never fallinto the error of thinking that you have to accept them as anything other than a statement of what some people believed, in a certain way, at a certain time.poppy tupperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02199333822668790443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2343277549128598933.post-19861875006291668952009-06-02T14:05:14.067+01:002009-06-02T14:05:14.067+01:00Hi David - yes let me know how it goes!;) I suppos...Hi David - yes let me know how it goes!;) I suppose it's this bit I can't imagine myself saying after the births of my two daughters:<br /><br />...thou hast delivered my soul from death: mine eyes from tears, and my feet from falling...I was sore troubled: I said in my haste, All men are liars...<br /><br />This might be because I had, particularly, with my first daughter, one of those, quite rare, I believe, euphoric birth experiences. Drug free but no pain, in fact, it all felt rather lovely and I didn't scream obscenities at my husband, as is often the stereotype painted. <br /><br />Oh dear, the 'all men are liars' bit really wouldn't do these days, and it does make me chuckle a little. I'm not sure I could speak the words without giggling. <br /><br />However, the idea of thanking God for his generosity and this new life and the health of the mother is I think a fantastic idea and if churches did this for newborns and their families it might make for a wonderful entry into the Church and is a great opportunity for evangelism, which could then be followed up with all sorts of things: Christian parenting classes, playgroups, house-group invites, baptism discussions etc - what an opportunity for the gospel and an occasion to praise God for the blessing of new life. <br /><br />Wow - much to think about there - possibly an exciting initiativeRev R Marszalekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01831340057673771787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2343277549128598933.post-25152202525875029802009-06-02T13:15:17.340+01:002009-06-02T13:15:17.340+01:00what is it about it that you think makes it not ap...what is it about it that you think makes it not appropriate?<br /><br />but agreed, never seen it done.However, we have a friend about to give birth - shall I give it a try? ;-)David Ouldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10622248017352143637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2343277549128598933.post-41394913889298411762009-06-02T09:22:00.749+01:002009-06-02T09:22:00.749+01:00In some ways the BCP 'The Churching of Women' is q...In some ways the BCP 'The Churching of Women' is quite beautiful,but I just can't imagine it is a service ever delivered these days - I'd be interested to know if it's otherwise.Rev R Marszalekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01831340057673771787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2343277549128598933.post-70626708584961623272009-06-02T09:14:53.310+01:002009-06-02T09:14:53.310+01:00Thank you David. It was one of the first things I ...Thank you David. It was one of the first things I did when I started to pursue this call. I'm a cradle Angican and wanted to think through whether Anglicanism is also the expression of discipleship which I fully subscribe to in terms of the things which it holds dear. I am very glad to say that it is and I am able to articulate more ably why I am an Anglican because of my study of these distinctives - so yes, it is very important. <br /><br />What we need to do is simply get passionate about Cranmer. We need to present him so that he speaks to people today and be aware that people coming to Christ through Anglicanism aren't always going to find him accessible. Some of the parts of the prayer book seem alien to today's culture, like the prayers for women after childbirth, for example. <br /><br />Thanks for your contribution and encouragement. :)Rev R Marszalekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01831340057673771787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2343277549128598933.post-80022830507045870732009-06-02T02:03:07.933+01:002009-06-02T02:03:07.933+01:00btw, I never told you how much I like your new blo...btw, I never told you how much I like your new blog design.David Ouldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10622248017352143637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2343277549128598933.post-20424159577167525762009-06-02T02:02:35.954+01:002009-06-02T02:02:35.954+01:00Well Rachel, I think the challenge is that the Can...Well Rachel, I think the challenge is that the Canons of the CofE require you to subscribe to the Articles and doctrine of the BCP if you are to be ordained.<br /><br />You are, I'm sure, as sick as I am of those who make promises at ordination that they have no intention to keep. It's just a question of integrity and you strike me as a person of real deep integrity.<br /><br />I'd urge you to study them hard. Read them through. Ask yourself if you are prepared to accept them and agree with them. If so then go ahead with a clear conscience.<br /><br />If not, then have the integrity to find another denomination to get ordained in.<br /><br />Please note, this is entirely independent of the male/female issue. I'd be saying exactly the same thing to a bloke.<br /><br />Let your yes be a clear and honest "yes"!David Ouldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10622248017352143637noreply@blogger.com